From Me to Panelists: (11:00 AM)

Day 145 - Hooray!

From Me to Panelists and Attendees: (11:01 AM)

Day 145 - Hooray!

From sharon to Panelists and Attendees: (11:02 AM)

Good Morning to all and to Day 145- Blessings, from seattle

From Liliane Mavridara to Panelists and Attendees: (11:02 AM)

Happy Tuesday Everyone!

From Peter Merry  to Panelists and Attendees: (11:02 AM)

Hi everyone, good to have you with us! Remember to select All panelists and attendees if you want everyone to read your message.

From Doreen Tanenbaum to Panelists and Attendees: (11:02 AM)

Good Morning from the woods of North Carolina.

From Auguste Hill to Panelists and Attendees: (11:03 AM)

it’s so terrific being here!

From Doreen Tanenbaum to Panelists and Attendees: (11:04 AM)

Bless the Lady of Freedom that stands on the capital dome

From Amy Oscar Oscar to Panelists and Attendees: (11:04 AM)

Thank you for this astute summary and context, Jim.

From AMY A BLUMENSHINE to Panelists and Attendees: (11:05 AM)

He’s selling out the national/global assets.  Who can say what he might be personally gaining from these actions?

From Shannon McArthur to Panelists and Attendees: (11:05 AM)

Blessed be, all of ye and he,  too…  Please change To to include attendees so we see  what you say… Beautiful  morning to you all…

From sharon to Panelists and Attendees: (11:06 AM)

We all need to check in on our selves.

From Ken Haldenstein to Panelists and Attendees: (11:06 AM)

Great morning to everyone!

From Doreen Tanenbaum to Panelists and Attendees: (11:07 AM)

I wonder what the Senate will do since Trump did not go through the Senate to dismantle the program and airplanes

From sharon to Panelists and Attendees: (11:08 AM)

@Jim Love the rendition of History.  Revealing so much to me.
Diversity in the Unity.

From Shannon McArthur to Panelists and Attendees: (11:12 AM)

yay, Peter!!
MOM!! thank you for all the synchronicities and magic in our lives!!

From Me to Panelists and Attendees: (11:14 AM)

..oOo.. ========================== Dear Chat PEOPLE and  panelists Some of us are gathering in a Zoom meeting after this session closes.  You can join the Zoom Meeting https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81045613451?pwd=S1JxSE9WNzJQV2JKSXhhaFZ3Wng1UT09 Meeting ID: 810 4561 3451 Passcode: 919541  .               ..oOo.. ========================== .          We have an email list for ChatPeople  where we  send a daily message that points to all of the HR recordings and Chats since mid July.   We also have an interactive list called ChatAction for people to discuss their interests.  Write to me to be added to one or both of the lists. -- stan@communitymagic.org ==========================

From Shannon McArthur to Panelists and Attendees: (11:15 AM)

Dear Peter, please put the links to the long conversations here so we can listen too

From sharon to Panelists and Attendees: (11:16 AM)

@Peter.  @Nish welcome.

From Shannon McArthur to Panelists and Attendees: (11:16 AM)

g’mornin’ Nish!

From Peter Merry  to Panelists and Attendees: (11:17 AM)

This is the link to the youtube channel. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_3XgSxqLrC3MgODbJroQaw

From Shannon McArthur to Panelists and Attendees: (11:18 AM)

ty Peter!
#no-self  #profound

From Kathryn Alexander, MA to Panelists and Attendees: (11:21 AM)

YAY Fritjof! He’s been one of my mentors, as well!

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:23 AM)

Nish Dubashia: speaking of David Bohm https://www.google.com/search?q=David+Bohm+books&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjch-O9ypvtAhVqA50JHTEkAEoQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=David+Bohm+books&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzICCAAyBAgAEBgyBAgAEBgyBAgAEBg6BggAEAcQHjoICAAQCBAHEB46BAgAEB5Q6scCWPiJA2DijANoAXAAeACAAUOIAbcIkgECMTiYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=OzK9X5z-D-qG9PwPsciA0AQ&bih=986&biw=1792  and Jane Krishnamurthi themself of these dialogues…Nish born 1966 experienced no self, something else would take over in running and playing violin> unity with all, learned evangelical Christianity, transformed at University of Warrick found Krishnamurti and Capra’s Tao Physics, also critical thinking> Hinduism/Buddhisim studied under monks/meditation, live 100 meters away from Taoist master Chi Su, writings of David Bohm through Krishnamurthi> mathematically precise Xplanation of his Xperiences> Ken Wilbur’s integral Thinking> commonalities of teachers,>>> model of essence of what each of the teachers was trying to say, sent paper and model

From Shannon McArthur to Panelists and Attendees: (11:23 AM)

Bless you, Kat!!

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:24 AM)

to David Bohm, invited Nisha to discuss in Jan 1991 in conversation with DB> Unity of Everything

From Doreen Tanenbaum to Panelists and Attendees: (11:25 AM)

I always found physics is the best language for spirituality

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:26 AM)

Unity of Everything: https://www.amazon.com/Unity-Everything-Conversation-David-Bohm/dp/374399299X

From Shannon McArthur to Panelists and Attendees: (11:26 AM)

math, spiritual and physical - I am so impressed with Nish’s gifts
AND DOWNLOADS!!! omg

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:29 AM)

Nish: entire structured revealed itself in one moment, appears like a diamond (Sparkling, reflective/refractive/had/brilliant?) Multiplicity the world is separated by space/time/ normal (3D world in manifested reality in most of our awareness?) world of parts underlines deeper no duality/oneness behind the many, unity of everything that normally we do not see or perceive deeper nature of the world in which we live, traditions/teachers (DB) emerges out of deeper whole and returns to deeper whole, All spoke of WHOLE and PARTS

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:31 AM)

ND: interpersonal conflicts/violence, result of us taking process of division that results in the whole manifesting in multiplicity we take too far, normally a healthy/natural place to be, parts become fragments, b=divide/unite things that are not parts/whole, Human race divided into different races division leads multiplicity to fragmentation OR religious fragmentation results in conflicts/violence/problems

From Jonathan McCloud to Panelists and Attendees: (11:32 AM)

I like to think of one asset of Multiplicity is as Individuation

From Jane to Panelists and Attendees: (11:34 AM)

@Jonathan..wouldn't individuation be the same as fragmentation?

From Tammy Muter to Panelists and Attendees: (11:34 AM)

intent directs it

From Jonathan McCloud to Panelists and Attendees: (11:35 AM)

@Jane Individuation does not infer negative conno

From Shannon McArthur to Panelists and Attendees: (11:35 AM)

fragmentation happens when dissociated from The Whole - individuation is important to allow diversity

From Astrid McWilliams to Panelists and Attendees: (11:35 AM)

The facets of the diamond…

From Jane to Panelists and Attendees: (11:35 AM)

Got it thanks Jonathan.

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:36 AM)

PM: is diversity natural multiplicity? Is fragmentation multiplicity without the whole? ND: whole/multiplicity two sides of same coin, losing sight of the whole Multiplicity becomes disconnected form the whole dcreating divisions that are not really there and taking functional divisions as absolute also leads to conflict/fragmentation/violence, PM: all one and not thinking of separation illusion, diversity exists to celebrate these distinctions are deep process of ever more refining, keep that part of the puzzle, be here in the diversity AND remember the interconnectedness and not pull parts apart leading to fragmentation creating problems of today ND: some traditions have only taught whole is real, diversity of any kind is a problem, believes along with BOHM that approach is a fragmentation, dividing something that is not a whole from multiplicity stating only one is real leads to fragmentation PM: absolute and relative distinguished from each other, Ken Wilbur: non jewel is when you can hold the whole...

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:36 AM)

And relative at the same time

From Kip Adams to Panelists and Attendees: (11:36 AM)

Seems they are talking about what the symbol of the TAO represents

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:36 AM)

Dual

From AMY A BLUMENSHINE to Panelists and Attendees: (11:37 AM)

Sounds like JEWEL — like diamond!

From rajinder to Panelists and Attendees: (11:37 AM)

non-duality

From Amy Oscar Oscar to Panelists and Attendees: (11:37 AM)

Peter. Would you say that naming anything is, inherently, an act of fragmentation?

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:37 AM)

ND: ground = non dual + whole + multiplicity both real/important

From rajinder to Panelists and Attendees: (11:37 AM)

look it up

From AMY A BLUMENSHINE to Panelists and Attendees: (11:38 AM)

Play and lightness are so important!

From Kathryn Alexander, MA to Panelists and Attendees: (11:38 AM)

All worthy of respect…

From shawne mitchell to Panelists and Attendees: (11:38 AM)

@Amy Oscar . . . . :-) xx. shawne

From Tammy Muter to Panelists and Attendees: (11:39 AM)

The multiples are whole, enjoy all of it :-)

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:39 AM)

PM: play in the world of things with a lightness knowing it is all connected, not guilty about being in the world of matter (MATEERING) incarnated for a reason in this relative world in our diversity/multiplicity, not lost in multiplicity, remember it is all interconnected in the whole spiritual activism, making a difference and hold a small smile knowing it is all interconnected and we can not conceive of the vast whole

From Kathryn Alexander, MA to Panelists and Attendees: (11:39 AM)

Best be clear about the difference between differentiation and fragmentation - very different

From rajinder to Panelists and Attendees: (11:40 AM)

that’s not a fair reading of this story

From Amy Oscar Oscar to Panelists and Attendees: (11:40 AM)

Uh oh. Shakti as mistake, original sin, etc.

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:40 AM)

Shive: Whole Shakti Wholeness, illusion/mistake, creation of the world is a mistake because this world is only suffering SHIVA & SHAKTI might be two halves of the same whole, both equally important in union, truly find wholeness

From Amy Oscar Oscar to Panelists and Attendees: (11:40 AM)

Ah… yes. Union of Shiva and Shakti. Okay.

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:41 AM)

Female is still denied. Can not get humanity to Wholeness until female becomes realized?

From rajinder to Panelists and Attendees: (11:41 AM)

oh dear.. please not not bring the masculine feminine mimes here

From sharon to Panelists and Attendees: (11:41 AM)

@Peter moved away from the heart.

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:42 AM)

PM: witches were burned, trauma healing the transcendence of god out there and in here and present

From Shannon McArthur to Panelists and Attendees: (11:42 AM)

good to see faces!

From Anne Baring to Panelists and Attendees: (11:42 AM)

The same idea of unity of the Divine ground and its manifestation is found in Kabbalah.

From rajinder to Panelists and Attendees: (11:42 AM)

listening now I see we are still in the trauma and unable to surface the non duality and the interconnection and interdependence
please !!

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:43 AM)

ND: transcendent oriented religions-Christianity=SIN, denigrate feminine symbolizes manifestation

From shawne mitchell to Panelists and Attendees: (11:44 AM)

Contrary to popular belief - in the US - the so-called witches were hung - not burned.

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:44 AM)

How does the whole become multiplicity through introduction of difference TAOSIM: between self/other, yin/yang, whole split into primary dualism> continues to multiplicity to diversity
Observer and the observed?

From Richard Page to Panelists and Attendees: (11:45 AM)

@Amy cf. Sir John Woodruff writing as Arthur Avalon in “Shakti and Shakta” 1918: Shakti always comes first as she comprises 60% of the creation

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:45 AM)

Yes, functionally necessary, but can spiral out of control into fragmentation creation of self, create Xperience of selfhood separate from rest of universe, PM: Can become 100% subjective then 2 things are always related, and no complete objectivity, interrelated at a deeper level of the whole
ND: Scientism may believe it is the only truth> objectivity becomes an absolute and only way to find truth, when we fall for this absolutism we get fragmentism

From Erik Cornish to Panelists and Attendees: (11:46 AM)

Patanjali's Yoga Sutras talk of observer; observed and process of observing becoming one.

From rajinder to Panelists and Attendees: (11:47 AM)

it’s integration

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:47 AM)

PM: Dean Regan: belief of the researcher influences the outcome of the researcher falling apart (WONDER HOW THIS MIGHT APPLY TO VACCINE RESEARCH?)

From Liliane Mavridara to Panelists and Attendees: (11:47 AM)

Dean Radin

From shawne mitchell to Panelists and Attendees: (11:47 AM)

Dean Radin, PhD. Institut of Noetic Sciences.

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:48 AM)

Fragmentation>Multiplicity splits into subject/object>Mind/matter.implicate order.THe ORder

From Richard Page to Panelists and Attendees: (11:48 AM)

@Erik: In Tibetan terminology, Shens-pa, Shens-cha,Shens-papo. Of course, Mahayana Buddhism was instructed by Kashmir Shaivism from India

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:48 AM)

Barbara Marx Hubbard spoke broadly of the Implicate Order

From rajinder to Panelists and Attendees: (11:49 AM)

see it as « folding and unfolding »

From Shannon McArthur to Panelists and Attendees: (11:50 AM)

data & dot… info & matter

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:50 AM)

Explicative Order unfolds in one moment and then enfolds in the next moment between implicate and Xplicate the Xperienced world is generated, mind/matter> subject/Object> relatively autonomous sub totalities that emerge from underlying order, interaction generates normal 3d world in which we live

From Richard Page to Panelists and Attendees: (11:50 AM)

The unfoldment in Kashmir Shaivism starts with a unity, then divides in contraction until the unmanifest Purusha becomes Prakriti, the manifest world which subsists only because of the subtle vibrations of 52 bhij (seed) sylables

From rajinder to Panelists and Attendees: (11:50 AM)

merging and emerging

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:50 AM)

PM: Mind see matter, sees many things, generates this momnet> me and the other core dynamic of differentiation, bringing awareness to observe the multiplicity surrounding us in each NOW

From Anne-Marie Goncalves Desai to Panelists and Attendees: (11:51 AM)

pure potentiality?

From Richard Page to Panelists and Attendees: (11:51 AM)

Yes, a new creation in each breath say some Sufis

From shawne mitchell to Panelists and Attendees: (11:51 AM)

mobius strip?

From rajinder to Panelists and Attendees: (11:52 AM)

torus

From Jonathan McCloud to Panelists and Attendees: (11:52 AM)

The dance is haptic feedback

From sharon to Panelists and Attendees: (11:52 AM)

Unity in Diversity goes back to Rumi- oneness of being.

From AMY A BLUMENSHINE to Panelists and Attendees: (11:52 AM)

And that’s the paths formed in our brains as well!

From Jane to Panelists and Attendees: (11:53 AM)

sanskars?

From Doreen Tanenbaum to Panelists and Attendees: (11:53 AM)

That
That is why action is important

From Richard Page to Panelists and Attendees: (11:53 AM)

Does the explicate affect the implicate? Does the exemplar affect the archetype?

From Amy Oscar Oscar to Panelists and Attendees: (11:54 AM)

@Shawne xxoo

From shawne mitchell to Panelists and Attendees: (11:54 AM)

and/or . . . as we are the path-makers. . .then are we also the ones that make it up in the first place? Does that make it real or true? Or did we just make-it-up?

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:54 AM)

ND: Mind/matter separate in meditation enfolding cycle continuously, Xplicate order folds as implicate order is now new in next moment, PM: Akashic Records, ND: not only multiplicity evolves also the implicate and XPlicative order continuously influence the evolution of each, Ken Wilbur, Evolutionary grooves, more people who walk the apth> clearer path for others to mimic the previous moment, patterns can be healthy or not, if unhealthy then can be difficult to undo (Mr. t.) human consciousness field becomes polluted (OUR WORLD IS POLLUTED_OCEANS< SOILS< AIR) lay down healthy patterns:: Eastern traditions call this Karma, patterns that we contribute throughout own living to influence others not known by Explicative because they happen at a deeper level> Probabilities?

From Shannon McArthur to Panelists and Attendees: (11:55 AM)

“just” make it up?  yes, and yet saying it that way implies negativity. No so! This is our purpose… imho

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:56 AM)

creativity some from Implicate order must be probabilistic and not known for certainty, otherwise purely deterministic machine and no evolution because of constantly creating something new

From rajinder to Panelists and Attendees: (11:56 AM)

also interesting is that he speaks of himself as the speaker

From Malini Rajendran - Infinite Life to Panelists and Attendees: (11:57 AM)

Absolutely human thinking ( the mind ) is where all the problems start.

From rajinder to Panelists and Attendees: (11:57 AM)

chronos and cairos

From Shannon McArthur to Panelists and Attendees: (11:57 AM)

and it is where they are solved, Malini.

From Kathryn Alexander, MA to Panelists and Attendees: (11:57 AM)

Playing with fragmentation...

From rajinder to Panelists and Attendees: (11:57 AM)

événementiel

From Amy Oscar Oscar to Panelists and Attendees: (11:58 AM)

So psychological time is carrying the past into the present, which blocks the flow of real time, blocks the flow of presence.

From Dr. Carroy (Cuf) Ferguson to Panelists and Attendees: (11:59 AM)

How would you apply the Diamond Model, Bohm ideas & Krisnamurti’s ideas to the idea of reincarnation and the concept of self?

From Doreen Tanenbaum to Panelists and Attendees: (11:59 AM)

You can clean the thought

From rajinder to Panelists and Attendees: (11:59 AM)

wonderful discussion and great day to all

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:59 AM)

ND: Krishnamurti has similar language: COnflict>Thought/TimeSplits into observer and observed reconnects to the Universal Mind (Energy, emptiness) to the GROUND, time chronological (Normal passing of time) and psychological (time is timeless and fragmented holding onto memories for good or ill past/present/future builds upon inexistent divisions PM: attachments?    Creation/insight Past/present/future  when held on with psychological attachment leads to conflict (Assessments, judgements prejudices?)

From Malini Rajendran - Infinite Life to Panelists and Attendees: (11:59 AM)

Shannon you cannot solve a problem from the place where it was created. especially human problems , It will take the implicit order or the divine to work from the human heart to find solutions to all these problems that have been created by faulty human thinking of the EGO.

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (11:59 AM)

Beginning of all misery see ourselves fundamentally different than the thing we are observing, not real

From Kathryn Alexander, MA to Panelists and Attendees: (12:00 PM)

Fragmentation is the illusion

From Shannon McArthur to Panelists and Attendees: (12:00 PM)

choices need to be made - informed by the mind, the heart chooses

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (12:00 PM)

The Ending of Time: Bohm beyond the observer and the observed dialogues of healing this division > energy universal energy from which the world comes and goes> universal mind.cosmic mind.thought/time

From Malini Rajendran - Infinite Life to Panelists and Attendees: (12:01 PM)

The observer and the observed are a function of duality . .

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (12:01 PM)

Particular dies into the universal and the the universal dies into the ground yields a person living without conflict

From Malini Rajendran - Infinite Life to Panelists and Attendees: (12:02 PM)

I am that which is and I am that which is not. BGT

From Mushin Patric Roberts to Panelists and Attendees: (12:02 PM)

Dali Lama Quote: The Dali Lama was asked what surprised him most about humanity, answered "Man. Because he sacrifices his health to make money.  Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.  And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is going to die, and then dies having never lived."

From sharon to Panelists and Attendees: (12:02 PM)

@Peter yes, Thank you Nish.

From Kat Haber to Panelists and Attendees: (12:03 PM)

PM: DB remove the illusion I exist in time, > impossible to sustain the illusion, time has that separation, practice of presence implicitly generates feeling of connectedness, not seen as separate rather as interconnected (WHY I SCRIBE>)